Re: 164 a sports sedan? Torque steer not LS

[Bernie & Diana Bennett <bennetts@domain.elided>]

Michael:

Probably under 2900 lbs is a major requirement for a Sport Sedan? Uh and
sportiness too!

The 164 LS and (Q tho I have no personal Experience) has no torque steer
due to redesign of the front suspension.

Our automatic LS tracks straight as it shifts, even at full throttle.
Our '91 L automatic will if only if a firm grip is kept on the wheel;
but you can feel the pull. I would not rev our '91 L to a full throttle
acceleration run in the rain. It would not be controllable (by me?) Have
driven a few examples of 5 speed 164 L' and Base models. The standard
applies the power much more strongly and I have been surprised by the
violence of the torque steer.

I took the '91 to the Baltimore AROC convention and did the driving
school event at the West Virginia Race track. Fun, the car was quite
controllable. Again, probably the automatic moderates the amount of
power laid down? But, I did find that I really didn't like those 100+
speeds. I have trouble concentrating & my mind wanders.

I have also autocrossed our L, LS and now our Automatic spider. Just put
the car in first and modulate with the accelerator and the brakes<g>.
Most of the autoX's are too slow to get out of first gear. I'd say both
the L and LS are "sporty" sedans. Yeah, I love the luxury too!

Best Wishes,
Bernie Bennett

'91 164 L    \\\\
'92 Spider Veloce  >>> Three automatic Alfas
'94 164 LS   ////




Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2002 21:04:38 -0600
From: C M Smith <cmsmith@domain.elided>
Subject: 164 a sports sedan?

I am not especially objective but I can tell you that a 164 is
definitely 
NOT a sports sedan.

The Milano is.

The BMW 3 series is (especially the M3!) and the  2002 is (especially
the 
Tii or the turbo). The Berlina is though the giulia and giulietta
versions 
(especially the TI) are more sports sedan than the bigger Alfas.

Mercedes does not and never has built a sports sedan. No North American 
manufacturer has come close to offering a sports sedan, except possibly
the 
interesting Mondeo (Contour) SVT.

FIAT, Renault, Citroen, Lancia, Jaguar, Triumph, MG, Jensen, Opel, SAAB, 
Lexus, Honda, Infiniti, Mazda, I am sure there are others, have built 
sports sedans.

The 164 is a very good handling, heavy luxury sedan. It is a great car,
if 
that's what you want. It was not intended to compare with a sports sedan 
like the Milano (in Europe the 155 was the closest equivalent.)

Torque steer is a major problem with the 164. The SAAB 9000 is not too
bad 
in that department unless you buy the Aero which has it big time (well, 
depending on your def'n of torque steer.) I don't think the 9000 suffers 
much from torque steer properly defined, but the 164 does, especially
the S.

I really love the way my 164 drives, but it ain't no Milano that's for 
sure. The GTV6/Milano was one of the sweetest handling packages Alfa
ever 
built, or anyone for that matter. Anyone who drives a Milano or GTV6 and 
then buys a BMW is certifiable. No one built a car like that in modern 
times, and you'll never drive cars like those again. Too expensive to
build 
one with that level of sophistication, and what did they charge for
them? A 
steal, even with the build quality problems.

Cheers


Michael Smith
--
to be removed from alfa, see /bin/digest-subs.cgi
or email "unsubscribe alfa" to majordomo@domain.elided